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Massimo Lensi interviews «Robert», his former cell-mate in the Vientiane prison
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Robert, a former prisoner, talks about the corruption, torture, disease and death in the «best» prison in Laos.
Rome, 18 February 2002 - Massimo Lensi interviews Robert, his cell-mate in the Phontong prison (Laos), for Radio Radicale.
During their demonstration for democracy and justice in Laos, Olivier Dupuis, Nikolai Khramov, Silvja Manzi, Bruno Mellano and Massimo Lensi were arrested and taken to the prison for foreign nationals in Vientiane. They were then split up and forced to share tiny cells with other prisoners, before being placed in solitary confinement.
Robert was Massimo Lensi’s cell-mate during his time in the Phontong prison in Vientiane. He was released after serving a seven-year sentence for a petty crime related to heroin-smuggling on the border between Thailand and Laos.
In his interview with Massimo Lensi, Robert describes the things he witnessed and the things he went through himself during his seven-year stay in a prison totally cut off from the outside world.
«Laos is a country where corruption and violence are the norm,» begins Lensi, «but this is probably already common knowledge, partly due to our nonviolent action in support of the five students imprisoned in 1999 and not heard of since, for whom we will continue to campaign with all our force, promoting resolutions, motions and points of order in municipal and regional councils and urging the European Union to work in this direction, because there has been no news of the five students.»
«In Laos, ruled by a totalitarian regime in the hands of a group of bureaucrats from the Lao Communist Party,» continues Lensi, «there are prisons that are horrifying, to say the least. Prisons where people die, where they lose all hope, where they have no contact whatsoever with the outside world, forbidden from getting in touch with their families, their Embassies, or their lawyers. A country in which the inmates are at the mercy of the Prison Directors.»
In the Phontong prison Lensi met many inmates who had committed no crimes: they were only «inside» to allow the bureaucrats to blackmail the companies they used to work for. In other words they had been kidnapped, and would remain inside until ransoms were paid to the prison authorities. A situation that is almost paradoxical, reminiscent of the Middle Ages in Western Europe.
«Far too many people live under these kinds of regimes. Brutal regimes that deny all rights, where people are no more than objects in the hands of the corrupt powers, or of the drug-traffickers, as is the case in Laos.»
Robert has now been released, but he has had serious problems since leaving the prison, and this is the first interview he has given. His first account of his seven terrible years in prison.
Massimo Lensi: Robert, can you tell our listeners about your experience in the Phontong prison for foreign nationals in Vientiane?
Robert: «I was arrested in 1994, but it was a year and a half before I was taken to court. During that time I had serious problems with my health, aggravated by the fact that it was very difficult for me to find anything to eat. Apart from the fact that it was disgusting, for me it was also prohibited. I am a Muslim. Before I fell ill I could buy things at the prison shop, but my illness obviously made it impossible for me to leave my cell, and there was no-one who could cook for me. Nor was I allowed to see a doctor.»
ML: What type of illness did you suffer from during your time in prison?
R: «I lost the use of my left eye. While I was ill with malaria, my eye became inflamed, full of blood. They didn’t give me any medicine: in fact if they had noticed the state of my eye they would have told me off. After three months, thanks to special programme for prisoners, I went to hospital. I was taken to hospital nine times in all. The doctor who treated me wrote a letter to the authorities asking them to send me back to me home country.»
«>From the time of my arrest my family had no news of me. Understandably, I asked if I could contact them, send them a message or a letter, but I wasn’t allowed to do so.»
«Going back to the time they took me to hospital, the doctor who saw me in 1999, about five and a half years after my arrest, once again asked them to send me back to my home country. To back up this request he sent the Home Minister all my medical files, but there was no reply from the Ministry. The procedure had probably come to a halt because I didn’t have enough money to speed it up. Back in prison, I couldn’t afford to buy the medicines I needed. The hospital had sent the medicines, as far as I know, but I never received them. In prison it is almost impossible even to get a common-or-garden headache pill.»
«As you can imagine, there are many diseases in that part of South-East Asia, so if you’re unfortunate enough to end up in prison it’s very difficult to survive without medicine.»
ML: Can you describe the general conditions for the inmates of the Phontong prison?
R: «The conditions for the inmates of the Phontong prison, as in all the prisons in Laos, are really tough, because there is no type of protection. There are no laws whatsoever. In my country, for example, in Muslim countries, if an inmate works he is given a small amount of money to buy food and medicine. But we were not allowed to do this in Phontong. They made us work, but without any pay. The other inmates, like me, were in terrible conditions. I remember that none of us could contact our families, none of us could receive help from outside. We were not allowed to get in touch with the outside world, or to ask for help. Anyone who wanted to visit us had to make a special request to the Home Ministry, and the request had to be suitably smoothed along with money, which none of us had.»
ML: Could you tell us about the practice of torture on prisoners?
R: «On this subject I would like to tell you the story of a group of young African men who were arrested and brought to Phontong about ten months before I was released. Once in their cells they were immobilised with wooden shackles on their feet, weighing over 10 pounds each, then beaten savagely with sticks wrapped in barbed wire. After this treatment, for about three weeks they were in dreadful state, hovering between life and death. For the next ten months they were locked in isolation cells, never let out even for e minute.»
«These five young men were arrested because they were black and were walking around together, and since the Communist dictatorship of Laos claims that the Africans have a subversive plan to overthrow the government, they ended up in prison. They beat them really badly, I’ve never seen anyone hit so brutally in all my life. There was blood everywhere, their legs were broken, their ankles shattered, their arms fractured. Obviously they were not given any medical treatment, let alone taken to hospital, because people would have realised they’d been tortured. They were not allowed to use the money they had on them at the time of their arrest to buy medicine inside the jail. The only inmates who could see them, as they passed in front of their cells, were Chinese, Vietnamese, or Thai. But as they didn’t speak the same language they had no way of communicating or giving them help.»
ML: The Phontong prison, as far as I remember, is supposed to be for foreigners, but I saw lots of Lao inmates around. Can you explain why?
R: «When you were brought to Phontong, word immediately spread that you were there to fight for the respect of human rights. At that time there were a lot of Lao political prisoners in Phontong. Four days after your arrival, they disappeared. They were taken away, it seems they were moved to a prison known as The Island.»(1)
«This notorious Island is the prison where Lao detainees, mainly political prisoners, are taken. Once they are moved there their life is over, for from what we heard they don’t give you any food there, and you can’t get hold of any for yourself.»
«The Phontong prison is much better: life there is better than in the other prisons in Laos. When they take you to the Island you are never heard of again, there’s no way you can get a message to them. Since 1994, when I was arrested, I have seen a lot of these transfers. The last people I saw moved were the ones taken away after your arrival. The reason for their transfer was your demonstration itself, the fact that you were fighting for the respect of human rights and wanted to obtain information on the issue.»
ML: So the Phontong prison for foreigners is actually full of Lao political prisoners?
R: «Exactly, there are many of them in Phontong.»
ML: Do you remember... we came to Vientiane precisely to hold a demonstration to ask about the fate of the five Lao students arrested exactly two years earlier? In our cell you spoke to me about a number of arrests made in October 1999. (2)
R: «Yes, various people were arrested in 1999. The five students who demonstrated for human rights and democracy in Laos passed through Phontong, but they were immediately moved to the Island. We heard nothing more about them. During the same period four missionaries from an American Christian association were also arrested. They were in Laos for humanitarian reasons, and were charged with trying to convert people.»
ML: I heard from some of the inmates that since it’s a prison for foreigners the United Nations contributes five dollars a day per prisoner to cover all their meals. Do you know anything about this?
R: «Yes, it’s true: the United Nations gives five dollars a day for each inmate. But considering what they gave us, rice or soup with three or four scraps of meat floating on top, it couldn’t have cost them more than a few kips a day (3). And considering the total cost for all the inmates, it can’t have been more than 800 kips, around seven dollars a day, as against the five dollars a day paid by the United Nations for every single prisoner.»
ML: Now that you’ve left Laos, can I ask you how much you had to pay to get out of prison?
R: «According to Lao law, prisoners who have been sentenced by the court have to pay bail - one million kips for each year spent in prison. So a six-year sentence means six million kips to pay on your release. Obviously the years are counted from the time of the sentence, not including the time spent waiting for trial. And obviously if you don’t have any money you are not released.»
«In Phontong there are many inmates who have still not been brought before a court, including the five African men I mentioned earlier, who still haven’t been given permission to contact their families or send them a message. When I was released, most of the inmates were foreigners, apart from three Lao inmates. Some of them were policemen already sentenced, so they won’t be transferred.»
ML: I remember that during the time we shared the same cell, before I was moved to solitary confinement, you told me about a number of people who had died in prison.
R: «Yes. An old man in our wing, for example, who was allowed to carry out errands for us, was chained with shackles inside the tiny bathroom in his cell, and was found dead one morning before they took him to hospital.»
«During the time I spent in prison I remember at least five people who ended up in a coma because of the physical abuse, and then died. When they begged to be taken to hospital, the Lao guards replied ‘If you’re eating, it means you’re OK, so you’re not in danger of dying. What do you want to go to hospital for?’ But they would slowly drift into a coma and pass away.»
«I remember another very young boy from Sri Lanka, who had been arrested because he had been asked to pay of $1,300 bill for phone calls he hadn’t made. He, too, died in prison.»
«I also remember two Pakistani boys who were arrested - not even in Laos, but in Vietnam - and then asked to pay a ransom of $1,400. They were sentenced to eighteen months in prison. When I was released, they were still there, even though they had already served more than eighteen months. They are still there because they have no money to pay the bail for release, and obviously they never will have, as they are not allowed to contact their families. They are also in extremely poor health, because they are Muslims and can’t eat the food given to them by the guards, who couldn’t care less whether you’re a Muslim or whatever. The only food they get is given to them by their cell-mate, a Canadian.»
«There is a Syrian boy who has been sentenced and has already served his eighteen-month term, but can’t get out because he has no money - he can’t contact anyone, and no-one knows he’s in prison. He has to pay $1,500, but when he asks for permission to get in touch with his family they reply ‘Have you got enough money to get in touch with them?’, but he hasn’t got any money, because he needs what little money he can get hold of for food. He has no contact with his Embassy. He was still inside when I left the prison.»
ML: What happened in the prison after me and the other four Radicals were released? Did things change, or did they stay the same as they were before? Were there any improvements, or did things get worse?
R: «There was no change at all. If anything, things got a bit worse. I managed to give the prison board some money to get out. If I hadn’t corrupted the guards I would still be in Laos.»
«I had already served three months more than my sentence, but the guards had lost my passport so I had to fight to be able to contact my Embassy, which is not in Laos, but in Vietnam. Once I had served my term I had to write a formal letter to the Home Ministry and to the Ministry of Immigration to ask for permission to stay in the huts so I could contact my friends and get hold of the money I needed to pay the bail. Fortunately I managed to prove that I had a friend in Singapore who I could ask to send me money, so they let me stay in the huts. At that point I managed to escape by boat to Thailand, where I am now. I crossed the Mekong but I couldn’t bring my stuff with me, my suitcases, the things I had in my cell.»
ML: One last question: would you like to make an appeal?
R: «I would like to appeal to your organisation, your party, to try to make sure that what happened to me never happens again, because nothing has changed yet in Laos.»
«I lost my left eye, but some people in prison have lost their lives. I lost my eye in prison, where I was refused medical treatment, where nothing was guaranteed, where I wasn’t fed, where I was given no protection. The United Nations pays five dollars a day for each prisoner, for each foreign national in the prison, but the food they give us isn’t worth one dollar for everyone. I would like to appeal to your organisation, to the international organisations, to put pressure on Laos so that the human rights are really guaranteed.»
ML: Robert, I can assure you that the Radical Party will continue to fight for human rights in Laos, as in China, Vietnam, and anywhere else it is necessary, and I would like to thank you again for your precious testimony.
Notes
(1) There is a second prison in Vientiane (Samkhe prison, also known as the Island), where Lao nationals are held.
(2) Bouavahn Chanmanivong, Khamphouvieng Sisa-At, Thongpaseuth Keuakoun, Seng-Aloun Phengphanh and Keochay, five students from the Movement for Democracy, were arrested on 26 October 1999 after a demonstration in the centre of Vientiane.
(3) Kip: the Lao currency.
(4) Phontong prison can hold up to 120 inmates.
Rome, 18 February 2002 - Massimo Lensi interviews Robert, his cell-mate in the Phontong prison (Laos), for Radio Radicale.
During their demonstration for democracy and justice in Laos, Olivier Dupuis, Nikolai Khramov, Silvja Manzi, Bruno Mellano and Massimo Lensi were arrested and taken to the prison for foreign nationals in Vientiane. They were then split up and forced to share tiny cells with other prisoners, before being placed in solitary confinement.
Robert was Massimo Lensi’s cell-mate during his time in the Phontong prison in Vientiane. He was released after serving a seven-year sentence for a petty crime related to heroin-smuggling on the border between Thailand and Laos.
In his interview with Massimo Lensi, Robert describes the things he witnessed and the things he went through himself during his seven-year stay in a prison totally cut off from the outside world.
«Laos is a country where corruption and violence are the norm,» begins Lensi, «but this is probably already common knowledge, partly due to our nonviolent action in support of the five students imprisoned in 1999 and not heard of since, for whom we will continue to campaign with all our force, promoting resolutions, motions and points of order in municipal and regional councils and urging the European Union to work in this direction, because there has been no news of the five students.»
«In Laos, ruled by a totalitarian regime in the hands of a group of bureaucrats from the Lao Communist Party,» continues Lensi, «there are prisons that are horrifying, to say the least. Prisons where people die, where they lose all hope, where they have no contact whatsoever with the outside world, forbidden from getting in touch with their families, their Embassies, or their lawyers. A country in which the inmates are at the mercy of the Prison Directors.»
In the Phontong prison Lensi met many inmates who had committed no crimes: they were only «inside» to allow the bureaucrats to blackmail the companies they used to work for. In other words they had been kidnapped, and would remain inside until ransoms were paid to the prison authorities. A situation that is almost paradoxical, reminiscent of the Middle Ages in Western Europe.
«Far too many people live under these kinds of regimes. Brutal regimes that deny all rights, where people are no more than objects in the hands of the corrupt powers, or of the drug-traffickers, as is the case in Laos.»
Robert has now been released, but he has had serious problems since leaving the prison, and this is the first interview he has given. His first account of his seven terrible years in prison.
Massimo Lensi: Robert, can you tell our listeners about your experience in the Phontong prison for foreign nationals in Vientiane?
Robert: «I was arrested in 1994, but it was a year and a half before I was taken to court. During that time I had serious problems with my health, aggravated by the fact that it was very difficult for me to find anything to eat. Apart from the fact that it was disgusting, for me it was also prohibited. I am a Muslim. Before I fell ill I could buy things at the prison shop, but my illness obviously made it impossible for me to leave my cell, and there was no-one who could cook for me. Nor was I allowed to see a doctor.»
ML: What type of illness did you suffer from during your time in prison?
R: «I lost the use of my left eye. While I was ill with malaria, my eye became inflamed, full of blood. They didn’t give me any medicine: in fact if they had noticed the state of my eye they would have told me off. After three months, thanks to special programme for prisoners, I went to hospital. I was taken to hospital nine times in all. The doctor who treated me wrote a letter to the authorities asking them to send me back to me home country.»
«>From the time of my arrest my family had no news of me. Understandably, I asked if I could contact them, send them a message or a letter, but I wasn’t allowed to do so.»
«Going back to the time they took me to hospital, the doctor who saw me in 1999, about five and a half years after my arrest, once again asked them to send me back to my home country. To back up this request he sent the Home Minister all my medical files, but there was no reply from the Ministry. The procedure had probably come to a halt because I didn’t have enough money to speed it up. Back in prison, I couldn’t afford to buy the medicines I needed. The hospital had sent the medicines, as far as I know, but I never received them. In prison it is almost impossible even to get a common-or-garden headache pill.»
«As you can imagine, there are many diseases in that part of South-East Asia, so if you’re unfortunate enough to end up in prison it’s very difficult to survive without medicine.»
ML: Can you describe the general conditions for the inmates of the Phontong prison?
R: «The conditions for the inmates of the Phontong prison, as in all the prisons in Laos, are really tough, because there is no type of protection. There are no laws whatsoever. In my country, for example, in Muslim countries, if an inmate works he is given a small amount of money to buy food and medicine. But we were not allowed to do this in Phontong. They made us work, but without any pay. The other inmates, like me, were in terrible conditions. I remember that none of us could contact our families, none of us could receive help from outside. We were not allowed to get in touch with the outside world, or to ask for help. Anyone who wanted to visit us had to make a special request to the Home Ministry, and the request had to be suitably smoothed along with money, which none of us had.»
ML: Could you tell us about the practice of torture on prisoners?
R: «On this subject I would like to tell you the story of a group of young African men who were arrested and brought to Phontong about ten months before I was released. Once in their cells they were immobilised with wooden shackles on their feet, weighing over 10 pounds each, then beaten savagely with sticks wrapped in barbed wire. After this treatment, for about three weeks they were in dreadful state, hovering between life and death. For the next ten months they were locked in isolation cells, never let out even for e minute.»
«These five young men were arrested because they were black and were walking around together, and since the Communist dictatorship of Laos claims that the Africans have a subversive plan to overthrow the government, they ended up in prison. They beat them really badly, I’ve never seen anyone hit so brutally in all my life. There was blood everywhere, their legs were broken, their ankles shattered, their arms fractured. Obviously they were not given any medical treatment, let alone taken to hospital, because people would have realised they’d been tortured. They were not allowed to use the money they had on them at the time of their arrest to buy medicine inside the jail. The only inmates who could see them, as they passed in front of their cells, were Chinese, Vietnamese, or Thai. But as they didn’t speak the same language they had no way of communicating or giving them help.»
ML: The Phontong prison, as far as I remember, is supposed to be for foreigners, but I saw lots of Lao inmates around. Can you explain why?
R: «When you were brought to Phontong, word immediately spread that you were there to fight for the respect of human rights. At that time there were a lot of Lao political prisoners in Phontong. Four days after your arrival, they disappeared. They were taken away, it seems they were moved to a prison known as The Island.»(1)
«This notorious Island is the prison where Lao detainees, mainly political prisoners, are taken. Once they are moved there their life is over, for from what we heard they don’t give you any food there, and you can’t get hold of any for yourself.»
«The Phontong prison is much better: life there is better than in the other prisons in Laos. When they take you to the Island you are never heard of again, there’s no way you can get a message to them. Since 1994, when I was arrested, I have seen a lot of these transfers. The last people I saw moved were the ones taken away after your arrival. The reason for their transfer was your demonstration itself, the fact that you were fighting for the respect of human rights and wanted to obtain information on the issue.»
ML: So the Phontong prison for foreigners is actually full of Lao political prisoners?
R: «Exactly, there are many of them in Phontong.»
ML: Do you remember... we came to Vientiane precisely to hold a demonstration to ask about the fate of the five Lao students arrested exactly two years earlier? In our cell you spoke to me about a number of arrests made in October 1999. (2)
R: «Yes, various people were arrested in 1999. The five students who demonstrated for human rights and democracy in Laos passed through Phontong, but they were immediately moved to the Island. We heard nothing more about them. During the same period four missionaries from an American Christian association were also arrested. They were in Laos for humanitarian reasons, and were charged with trying to convert people.»
ML: I heard from some of the inmates that since it’s a prison for foreigners the United Nations contributes five dollars a day per prisoner to cover all their meals. Do you know anything about this?
R: «Yes, it’s true: the United Nations gives five dollars a day for each inmate. But considering what they gave us, rice or soup with three or four scraps of meat floating on top, it couldn’t have cost them more than a few kips a day (3). And considering the total cost for all the inmates, it can’t have been more than 800 kips, around seven dollars a day, as against the five dollars a day paid by the United Nations for every single prisoner.»
ML: Now that you’ve left Laos, can I ask you how much you had to pay to get out of prison?
R: «According to Lao law, prisoners who have been sentenced by the court have to pay bail - one million kips for each year spent in prison. So a six-year sentence means six million kips to pay on your release. Obviously the years are counted from the time of the sentence, not including the time spent waiting for trial. And obviously if you don’t have any money you are not released.»
«In Phontong there are many inmates who have still not been brought before a court, including the five African men I mentioned earlier, who still haven’t been given permission to contact their families or send them a message. When I was released, most of the inmates were foreigners, apart from three Lao inmates. Some of them were policemen already sentenced, so they won’t be transferred.»
ML: I remember that during the time we shared the same cell, before I was moved to solitary confinement, you told me about a number of people who had died in prison.
R: «Yes. An old man in our wing, for example, who was allowed to carry out errands for us, was chained with shackles inside the tiny bathroom in his cell, and was found dead one morning before they took him to hospital.»
«During the time I spent in prison I remember at least five people who ended up in a coma because of the physical abuse, and then died. When they begged to be taken to hospital, the Lao guards replied ‘If you’re eating, it means you’re OK, so you’re not in danger of dying. What do you want to go to hospital for?’ But they would slowly drift into a coma and pass away.»
«I remember another very young boy from Sri Lanka, who had been arrested because he had been asked to pay of $1,300 bill for phone calls he hadn’t made. He, too, died in prison.»
«I also remember two Pakistani boys who were arrested - not even in Laos, but in Vietnam - and then asked to pay a ransom of $1,400. They were sentenced to eighteen months in prison. When I was released, they were still there, even though they had already served more than eighteen months. They are still there because they have no money to pay the bail for release, and obviously they never will have, as they are not allowed to contact their families. They are also in extremely poor health, because they are Muslims and can’t eat the food given to them by the guards, who couldn’t care less whether you’re a Muslim or whatever. The only food they get is given to them by their cell-mate, a Canadian.»
«There is a Syrian boy who has been sentenced and has already served his eighteen-month term, but can’t get out because he has no money - he can’t contact anyone, and no-one knows he’s in prison. He has to pay $1,500, but when he asks for permission to get in touch with his family they reply ‘Have you got enough money to get in touch with them?’, but he hasn’t got any money, because he needs what little money he can get hold of for food. He has no contact with his Embassy. He was still inside when I left the prison.»
ML: What happened in the prison after me and the other four Radicals were released? Did things change, or did they stay the same as they were before? Were there any improvements, or did things get worse?
R: «There was no change at all. If anything, things got a bit worse. I managed to give the prison board some money to get out. If I hadn’t corrupted the guards I would still be in Laos.»
«I had already served three months more than my sentence, but the guards had lost my passport so I had to fight to be able to contact my Embassy, which is not in Laos, but in Vietnam. Once I had served my term I had to write a formal letter to the Home Ministry and to the Ministry of Immigration to ask for permission to stay in the huts so I could contact my friends and get hold of the money I needed to pay the bail. Fortunately I managed to prove that I had a friend in Singapore who I could ask to send me money, so they let me stay in the huts. At that point I managed to escape by boat to Thailand, where I am now. I crossed the Mekong but I couldn’t bring my stuff with me, my suitcases, the things I had in my cell.»
ML: One last question: would you like to make an appeal?
R: «I would like to appeal to your organisation, your party, to try to make sure that what happened to me never happens again, because nothing has changed yet in Laos.»
«I lost my left eye, but some people in prison have lost their lives. I lost my eye in prison, where I was refused medical treatment, where nothing was guaranteed, where I wasn’t fed, where I was given no protection. The United Nations pays five dollars a day for each prisoner, for each foreign national in the prison, but the food they give us isn’t worth one dollar for everyone. I would like to appeal to your organisation, to the international organisations, to put pressure on Laos so that the human rights are really guaranteed.»
ML: Robert, I can assure you that the Radical Party will continue to fight for human rights in Laos, as in China, Vietnam, and anywhere else it is necessary, and I would like to thank you again for your precious testimony.
Notes
(1) There is a second prison in Vientiane (Samkhe prison, also known as the Island), where Lao nationals are held.
(2) Bouavahn Chanmanivong, Khamphouvieng Sisa-At, Thongpaseuth Keuakoun, Seng-Aloun Phengphanh and Keochay, five students from the Movement for Democracy, were arrested on 26 October 1999 after a demonstration in the centre of Vientiane.
(3) Kip: the Lao currency.
(4) Phontong prison can hold up to 120 inmates.
